Can you have a baby with long COVID? And more importantly, how do you look after one when you've barely got enough energy to look after yourself?
Katya's had a baby! After a rather lengthy hiatus, she's back to tell Hannah all about pregnancy, childbirth and the first few months of motherhood with long COVID.
From worrying about whether she'd have the stamina to push a baby out (quite a reasonable concern, really) to discovering that postpartum recovery is essentially an extreme exercise in pacing, Katya shares the highs and lows of bringing a small human into the world.
Katya and Hannah also discuss how chronic illness influences the decision to have children, the realities of parenting with limited energy, post-exertional malaise (PEM) and crashes, and the frankly ridiculous expectations placed on new mothers.
Can you be a good mum without baby gymnastics, sensory classes and an elaborate nap schedule? Katya certainly hopes so.
An honest, funny and ultimately hopeful conversation about motherhood, chronic illness and learning to do things your own way.
Transcript
Katya: 00:02
Okay, hello Hannah. Hi Cassie. How are you? I'm good. I was thinking I'll say because we're recording the podcast. Normally Hannah and I chat for a while and then like we start recording and then we do loads of edits. But because I'm mum now, like this is gonna be our first like completely edited podcast. Our completely unedited. Thank you. Did I say completely edited?
Hannah: 00:33
Yeah.
Katya: 00:34
Oh my god. That's the thing, is we make so many, I correct so many slips and remove so many likes. We've never really, no one's ever actually heard what we sound like normally speaking. Yeah, God forbid. Well, you're gonna find out now. Yeah, like the long COVID to the to people who thought we maybe didn't have long COVID because it's all so smooth.
Hannah: 00:57
Yeah. Um the brain fog is gonna be on full display today.
Katya: 01:03
Yeah.
Hannah: 01:04
Um as is my gravelly voice. Sorry, I've got a cough cold thing at the moment.
Katya: 01:11
You've got a nice voice for a podcast though, Hannah.
Hannah: 01:14
Smooth. You always say that. I think it sounds a bit scratchy, but um yeah. You've got like a much lighter, like more bubbly voice than me, which I think goes down well.
Katya: 01:28
I don't know. I find my voice really grating, but then I do think it is a good thing not to really like the sound of your own voice. That is true.
Hannah: 01:39
That is true. You are supposed to hear your own voice and cringe. That's yeah to me, that's a healthy response.
Katya: 01:45
Yeah, not to be like, oh, tell me more. I think I always sound really, really, really poshed. Really poshed. Oh, same, same, same, same.
Hannah: 01:56
Yeah.
Katya: 01:56
Because we are, I guess.
Hannah: 01:57
Because we are. It's yeah. Excruciatingly um what's the RP receive pronunciation?
Katya: 02:07
It is that, isn't it? I didn't even know that I like kind of speak with RP until someone someone said.
Hannah: 02:15
Yeah.
Katya: 02:15
When I was a child, I really wanted to be the voice of the train. You know, like next the next stop is Elephant and Castle. Oh, I love that voice. Please mind and then you realize that it's not that's not a job.
Hannah: 02:27
Like that was a job when the guy recorded aone saying it live every time. No, yeah, sadly. Right.
Hannah: 02:37
Yeah.
Hannah: 02:38
So Cassia, I feel like you're gonna be taking the floor mostly today. I'll be chipping in, but yeah, this is like a great opportunity to give our listeners an update. Firstly, uh on baby human who is alive at kicky, and then also what your experiences of um parenting are so far.
Katya: 03:03
Yeah, um cool. I will give an update. It has been, I think, over six months, maybe seven months since we last recorded. And I we said at the last one that we would definitely come back just because it's a big deal having a baby with a chronic illness. And I I would have been a bit worried if I had been following a podcast, and then there was a massive gap. So everything went really well. Um and the other thing I just want to say, we've apologized for the lack of editing, apologized for the gap. The third thing I just want to say before we start is I have spent a lot of time with people who struggled with infertility um recently. A lot of them are in my mum group. And if you um are struggling with that or this isn't for you, please don't listen to the podcast because we would never want to upset anybody. And this is probably going to be a very positive account of parenting with long COVID because everything worked out for me. So I just wanted to acknowledge that.
Speaker 2: 04:08
Yeah. Um cool.
Katya: 04:13
Yeah. So we were gonna start with um how long COVID impacted the decision to have a baby, just because I guess Hannah, you and I are at completely different ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 2: 04:23
Yeah.
Katya: 04:24
Do you want to go first for a change just for a break from me and then I can talk? Or do you want me to go first?
Hannah: 04:31
Yeah, I can go first. I think I haven't got like as much to say. Yeah. Um I think so. I came to the decision that I'm uh very likely not gonna have kids. Um, and I would say about 80%, 70, 80% of that decision is just because simply like for lots of various reasons not related to COVID, I don't want to be a mum. But I do think having long COVID is definitely definitely feeds into that because and part of me is annoyed because I'm like, well, I would like to have just been able to make the choice free of long COVID being a factor. Um, but I have to admit it is a factor. It's like even if I start like pondering it in my mind, like, uh, maybe I maybe I have made the wrong choice, maybe I do want kids, then suddenly it's like, well, no, you have long COVID. Right now, it's an impossibility for you to raise a baby on your own. Like, it's just a fact for me. Like, my long COVID is worse than Katia's is. And in order for me to look after a baby, I would need someone to help me round the clock. And obviously, I've got a husband, but he's gonna need to work. And then what? Like, you know, my parents don't live um down the road, they live in Guernsey and I live in England. Um, also, I would don't really want to expect that I'm gonna have long COVID and then my parents will then raise my child for me. Um so I don't know. I just it doesn't feel like a practical possibility with the amount of energy that I currently have. Um so but I think yeah, it's not the only factor that's stopping me from having kids. There are like my other like personal reasons why I didn't I decided it wasn't for me.
Katya: 06:29
Yeah.
Hannah: 06:30
Um but yeah.
Katya: 06:31
You would need to be in like a thrupple if you really wanted to have a child handler, you would need to bring someone else into the fold.
Hannah: 06:39
I just I was like, Holly Avery, maybe, maybe might be a sensible decision once in the world.
Katya: 06:47
A strong argument for that lifestyle.
Hannah: 06:51
Oh dear. But yeah, you are totally different to me. It was just like you for you, you're well, I think for one thing, your your long COVID is a little bit milder than mine anyway. But that's combined with you've always wanted to be a mum, haven't you?
Katya: 07:07
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I feel a sense of relief for you, Hannah, because I remember years ago, years and years ago, you said you didn't want kids. Like I am grateful for that 70%.
Speaker 2: 07:20
Yeah.
Katya: 07:21
That you were already not planning on becoming a mum, and then this just kind of made it absolutely impossible right now.
Hannah: 07:31
Yeah. It would be such a different story if I was like you, really wanted kids, and I was living with my long COVID as it is now. I think it would be really, really worrying for me. Yeah. Um thinking, how how am I ever going to be able to have the kids that I want with the condition that I'm living with? But I I'm not in that dilemma. But I'm sure there are listeners who might be.
Katya: 07:54
Yeah, and for whom it's like completely it's just another level of like devastation on top of an already shit illness, is that that part of your life is either on pause or you just can't explore it, or you need to explore surrogacy, or just my heart really goes out for those people.
Speaker 2: 08:13
Yeah.
Katya: 08:13
Um yeah, so I was completely different. So I always knew I wanted well, I think I always had the idea of wanting to have children. And then um, as I said on my last episode, just like a bunch of things changed. So as Hannah said, I had already made significant progress in my long COVID before I got pregnant. So before I got pregnant, uh it was like December 2025. Um, I was already walking for like 20, 30 minutes a day without any kind of um symptoms. I had changed jobs, I was working fully remote. I basically had just found quite a lot of energy and I wasn't having crashes anymore. Um, I wasn't like working out, I wasn't kind of gonna go back into the office full time, but I was, I definitely knew that I would probably be well enough to have a child. Yeah. So and I had so I was kind of like, I think I I was pretty sure that I had enough energy to physically carry the baby. And I also wasn't, I didn't do any of the thinking beyond can I physically have a baby? I think most people, just from speaking to my mum friends, when you talk about having children, you just think about a baby, which sounds crazy because you're like, surely you should think about having a child and then having a teenager and then having an adult in the world. Yeah, that's what that's what I think about. No, no, no. I Hannah, I was literally like, I just want a baby.
Speaker 2: 09:49
Wow.
Katya: 09:50
Yeah. Do you really think like, but then there'd be four, and how could I do a four-year-old's birthday party? Do you really think like that? Yes. Yes.
Hannah: 10:01
I think things through in detail.
Katya: 10:05
No.
Hannah: 10:06
No, I was like, I just want a baby. It must just be that instinctual desire just overrides. Well, that more like long-term thinking is just yeah.
Katya: 10:19
Yeah, no, it's all, yeah, you're right. It's complete, it's that's it's comp I feel like people who say they want children face almost no questioning. And people who say they don't want children face like a hundred thousand questions. My like, oh, I want a child was just I really want it, I want a little baby. I want a cute little baby, you know. And now that I've had a baby and she's like almost sitting up, I'm like, I would quite like another baby. Oh my gosh. It's like pure madness, Hannah. Um hilarious. Yeah, so I so I didn't overthink it. Um, on reflection, I'm kind of I mean, I'm glad I didn't. Like the truth is that people have babies in all kinds of situations. Like people have babies without thinking if they have cash for nursery. Turns out like we almost don't have cash for nursery, or like like we definitely couldn't have had twins because then I would have had to like leave my job and be a full-time mum. Like it's a whole you know, we didn't overthink it. Um but I also went into this having an excellent support system who knew about my long COVID. Um so like Matty knew that he would basically be a full like a full-time dad, full-time working, and then he knew that he would be cooking and cleaning on the weekends and after work, you know?
Hannah: 11:45
Yeah, Matty knew what he was signing up for.
Speaker 2: 11:48
Yeah.
Katya: 11:50
So yeah, that was kind so like I would say the impact of long COVID maybe just made me delay it until I reached that point of health.
Speaker 2: 12:01
Yeah. Um yeah.
Hannah: 12:06
So do you want to talk about how the birth went? Uh that was the thing that you were most anxious about. And our previous podcast episode was me having done quite a lot of research for you, trying to like assuage your anxiety, but keep you informed. So, how did it all go in the end?
Katya: 12:27
Yeah. That that's like to the point of not overthinking it. Like, my biggest fear with having a child was uh having a child with long COVID was how will I give birth?
Speaker 2: 12:36
Yeah.
Katya: 12:37
That was my where I was really focused on because it's this massive physical effort, and I hadn't done cardio, you know, I put that in quotations, since like April 2021. It had been like four years or something since I had done any kind of like that kind of exercise. So I approached birth really wanting my body to do all the work for me. Like I had done a lot of reading into birth as like a normal physiological process. Um if all the stars align, right? Baby's in the right position, you're well enough. Because I just knew that firstly I didn't want to have to have surgery and recover from it because I didn't know how that would work with my long COVID body. And secondly, I knew I couldn't do the you know, in films when women like grit their teeth and like effortfully push, yeah. I knew I wouldn't be able to do that for very long.
Hannah: 13:39
Yeah, I think that's that's the thing, is it is the the stamina that it requires is like, yeah, if you've got long COVID, you could push a bit, but then like your body will give up, like your energy runs out. Um well that's that's kind of what we were worried about. But yeah, your actual experience is different, right? It's like you forgot all about the crazy hormone surge that somehow allows you to dig like super deep. Yeah, and it feels like it's the tiny scraps of energy at the bottom of the barrel.
Katya: 14:15
Yeah. So I I had like before I went into I went into labor like properly on Wednesday evening, but I had had like a week, it was a wet Wednesday in a Wednesday at the start of September. I had had a week of like slow labour pains building, which I thought was just like period pains. And I remember saying to my mum, like, if this is labor, I can totally do it. That's fine, it's just like happening. And then one Wednesday evening, literally the day after my due date, they were just building and building and building. And I was super excited because by that point I was just desperate for my baby to come out. Like, I can't, the end of pregnancy, you are just it just constantly feels like a four kilogram weight is just sitting on your vagina and anus constantly. It's just like extraordinarily uncomfortable. So I really wanted baby to come out, so I was so excited. And then to enable like a natural birth, I had a little space in my house that was dark right by the bathroom, so I could go into the hot water, and I had like all of these meditations lined up on my phone that I had practiced in the months before. Um and so I basically just got into this really zen, relaxed headspace. And then I must caveat, like the baby was in the right position, the baby was the right size, like I was very lucky. I just don't want to go, I don't want to start sounding like those crazy free birth people who are like, anybody can give birth in a forest without a doctor. Like, no, I was really lucky. And I basically was able to go into kind of like a trance, I would say almost came over me. So that Wednesday evening, when I started having the surges, I was able to stay at home all the way through until Thursday morning, just with the contractions building and building and building. And I would like to sit on my this big like birthboard. It's basically just like a yoga ball with this like sling around my chest, basically taking all of my support. So when I was having a surge, I was basically just on the ball, kind of rocking my hips around to try and like help baby descend. And then as soon as that was over, I just lay down on the floor. So I was I basically rested as much as possible. And then by six o'clock the next day, maybe seven, the pain had become unbearable. Like, oh my Hannah, childhood, childbirth like really, really, really hurts. It really hurts. And so then I called the hospital. And basically, like I went to hospital and back twice that morning because each time I went, they were just like, I don't think you're a neighbor, go home. And I was super agreeable and also extremely zened out. So I was just like, okay, like, no worries, sorry for bothering you, went back home. And then I think by like one in the around 1 p.m. on Thursday, I started to feel something coming out of my vagina, which was yeah, which was like absolutely terrifying. Uh there was also like a small, you know, like the disgusting rat inside of you that was like, uh, I was right. Like, I really have been in, like, I that was stressful because I wasn't sure what it was, and I was afraid it was the umbilical cord. But anyway, then we rushed to hospital, and that was horrible because that was me in the back of Matty's car trying to keep the baby in. But I should just say that like up until that point, I didn't make any conscious effort to give birth. So like it was kind of tiring on my body, but it wasn't like like all of the pushing just happened. Kind of like throwing up, or like if you have diarrhea, you're not, it's like a different type of I can't explain it, but I wasn't consciously making an effort. It was like my body was just moving baby out.
Hannah: 18:29
Yeah, like you you didn't have to um use up loads of energy just to get her to the point where she was about to come out. Like it kind of happened on its own. So it was so a lot of the work was kind of done for you. Maybe it's because you're in such a you'd done all of that like meditation stuff, or your muscles just like relaxed and it was like, ah no, I'm just gonna slide out.
Katya: 18:55
I really I really think it was because when I got to hospital, we had to go straight to the labor ward, unfortunately, because baby had done a poo in me. The mess, Hannah. Oh my god. The mess when like the like the sack bur the sack burst, and then just like all of my darling baby's poo just like rain down to the floor in the walls anyway. All of my worst fears about labor. It's just you had to go straight to the labor ward, which is bright lights, um, machines, like more people than you would want. And I just felt all of my like zen state dissipate.
Speaker 2: 19:36
Yeah.
Katya: 19:36
And that was the hard bit because I felt like my body stopped just pushing baby, and then I had to push the baby, and the nurse was kind of like, you have an hour. The midwife was like, you have an hour to like get your baby out before we start like looking into interventions. And that was the shit bit because that was that was me on my back with my legs in stirrups, trying to stay in the zone, but having to like effortfully push. Um, it feels like the difference between just vomiting spontaneously while you're lying in bed and having to put your fingers down your throat and try and make yourself vomit, like times a million. And that I it was about 45 minutes, and I felt like the contractions they were getting weaker. And I remember the midwife being like, contractions are getting weaker. But I'd gotten so far, like I got to the point where baby's head was coming in and out, in and out, in and out. Oh my god, it feels like someone said it felt like shitting out, like, oh, it was like the most satisfying, excruciating shit you'll ever do. Like being like ripped apart anyway. There was a moment where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Can I please have a C-section? And the midwife was just like, no, you've done all of this, like you're nearly there. Yeah. And then I thought about this. So they gave me an epesiotomy, which is like a small cut um in my perineum. Right. And I had read before that they only give an epesiotomy to prevent a third degree tear, which I think is like a really serious tear, like either all the way up to the clitoris or down to the anus. So they they it can potentially be like a life-changing tear if you're very unlucky. Um, so that's why they do an appesiotomy. But looking back, I actually think that she gave me the epesiotomy because I was fatiguing, because I was slowing down. Oh, yeah. Because straight after the snip, baby came out. I mean, it could also be that my pelvic my pelvic floor was too tight. I'm sure that's also a factor. But I just have this feeling that she said she was going to give me the epesiotomy. I obviously consented. Can you consent in delirium? I'm not sure, but I do feel I'm very grateful for it. And then it was a single push she snipped, and baby came out.
Speaker 2: 21:57
So Yeah. So I just think it's interesting, like and then I I guess just very shortly, obviously, baby was out.
Katya: 22:10
There was a double rainbow in the sky, which was crazy. What? And like, yeah, and during the active pussy. A hundred percent sure. I have it on film. There was a double rainbow. And like during when I was in the labor ward, there had been a thunderstorm, there was a thunderstorm going. It was like a really crazy, like a pathetic fallacy full on in like labor ward.
Hannah: 22:30
It's like you're in your own novel. It's great.
Katya: 22:32
It was like being in a novel. Like the main character that I am. Um and then afterwards, I thought that I would be like completely dead. But I had this weird nervous energy for about two days.
Hannah: 22:46
Yeah, just like I couldn't see all the adrenaline like coursing through your body to get you through this, like obviously like life-threatening situation. Like not life-threatening, you know what I mean, but like this like super important situation, your body's like on like the highest alert it could be.
Katya: 23:04
Um like really like I was very vigilant afterwards. I was like, so even though I had just given birth and I felt like I couldn't do anything, I was also just constantly like aware of where baby was. And but so I just I was so pleased, right? Because my fear with long COVID was that I wouldn't be able to do labor. Yeah. And I would need to have something would go wrong, and then I would need to have complex interventions. Yeah. And so I was just, I just feel in awe of my body that like with long COVID, it still did this massive physical feat, mostly for me, without me consciously participating.
Hannah: 23:47
Yeah, yeah. And the, you know, the midwife at the end, like you said, she, you know, someone who's uh really experienced will just know what needs doing to help you get that final to get to the finish line, right? Like she knew, like, okay, I'll make that cut. And and then it happened straight away. So Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: 24:10
I think that was the other thing was um like uh your experience of speaking to the was it who was it that you spoke to?
Hannah: 24:22
I can't remember. There was a medical professional you spoke to.
Katya: 24:25
I spoke to a midwife and uh an obstetric consultant before.
Hannah: 24:29
That's it. And they were saying, like, well, we have we haven't really we don't often get women or we haven't had women who are living with long COVID giving birth, but we deal with other similar conditions a lot, and so we'll kind of be following the same principles. Um that kind of gives you well, it gave me comfort. Like when you told me that, I was thinking, okay, yeah, no, they these people know what they're doing, yeah. Um, to an extent, like they can pull on a lot of knowledge they have from how other similar conditions are managed in labor. So yeah.
Katya: 25:10
Yeah, no, I had that I had that same thought as well. Behold, it was really comforting. So yeah, and then baby came out and she was healthy and fine.
Hannah: 25:21
Yeah.
Katya: 25:21
So yeah, that was the birth.
Hannah: 25:23
Yeah, wonderful. Um, so initial recovery then. So you've got you've got baby now, you're like on super high alert for a couple of days. Yeah. But then then what happens?
Katya: 25:35
So I was thinking, I feel I wish that I think that my recovery from birth was good because of my long COVID. And I wish that I had taken like my initial long COVID infection, my initial COVID infection, like I did the birth, because I really just did nothing for like at least two weeks. And every day, either my mum or my husband's mum came over to hold the baby while I slept. Like I really just and then it was baby steps. It was like, okay, walking around the flat, okay, walking downstairs, walking to the end of the road, one like each, like, and then it was like a couple of days in between these little voyages. Um so I just I just feel like I had learned so much about resting and letting the body seeding, seeding control. Yeah.
Hannah: 26:28
Um, yeah. Letting someone else step in and hold the baby while you sleep. I imagine that would be quite hard for a lot of mums to do.
Katya: 26:37
Um I I also felt really aware of my nervous system. I think long, I think people who've had long COVID, you become aware of like when your nervous system is kind of like, I don't know any of the technical terms, but just really on edge. Yeah. I felt like that whenever baby was away from me. And so it was just doing those meditation exercises in bed, like desperately trying to get any sleep I could. Yeah. Which did mean handing baby over.
Hannah: 27:09
Yeah, yeah. And being like, and then being able to calm your body and be like, it's okay. Yeah, my baby's away from me, but that's okay. I can relax and get some sleep.
Katya: 27:19
Yeah, it was like very disciplined. And I had that sense, I had that thought in the back of my mind of like, I only want to recover from this once. Like, it's amazing how much we've learned from having long COVID. But I just knew that like if I rushed, then I would just be back in bed. But I'd be back in bed at a time when other people wouldn't be as understanding. Do you know if it had been like three months post and I was like, oh, well, I now I still need to go back and let my like vagina heal or something? You'd be kind of like, what? You gave birth 12 weeks ago. And I saw you out shopping the other day.
Hannah: 27:56
Yeah, yeah. You had a feeling of like, I've got this window right now where basically I have all the sympathy and help available to me. I'm gonna take advantage of this.
Katya: 28:08
Um, so that was actually really good. Um and then I would say by kind of like eight weeks post-maybe 10 weeks, I was walking for like 15 minutes a day every day.
Speaker 2: 28:23
Okay.
Katya: 28:24
Which is I was thrilled with because like after giving birth, if you give birth to Agency, I would just feel like the contents of my like bowels and like boom were gonna fall out of my butt to use the technical terminology. I'm gonna feel like you've been like turned inside out for a little while. Oh um, so yeah, that was the yeah, that was the start.
Speaker 2: 28:50
Yeah.
Hannah: 28:51
Um and so how are you feeling now? Because she's now grown into an eight kilo baby, as you told me the other day. So what's parenting been like in these sense? Because how old is she now? She's five and a half months. Five and a half months, yeah.
Katya: 29:06
So kind of looking back. So yeah, it's so amazing. Like there it's it's easy to list all of the negatives, but there is this one like constant shunshine in my life, which is her, and I just like I'm so in love. I've never felt so like sure of anything. Um I can hear her screaming right now, but generally I was thinking about like specifically with long COVID. I feel like during when I felt pregnant, I felt like I was way less aware of my long COVID. Firstly, because I had made a good deal of recovery. Secondly, because I got the second trimester energy boost, which is just wonderful.
Hannah: 29:54
Like, I know we spoke about that in our last episode, I think. Oh my god, I know.
Katya: 29:59
I know not everyone gets it, but yeah, you were on a bit of a cloud.
Hannah: 30:04
Yes.
Katya: 30:04
And apparently it's really common for like people with chronic with autoimmune illnesses to get better during that part of pregnancy. Um so I had that like boost. And I also massively think that it was I was I was comparing myself all through pregnancy to other pregnant women. So all of my like mom friends, they weren't doing exercise, they were taking everything slowly. So I kind of felt like my my illness became invisible to me during for most of pregnancy, I would say. Um and the early postpartum, because like the eight weeks when I was resting, you know, maybe other mums were coming, well, definitely I know my other mum friends were coming out of their um like beds quicker, but they were still recovering from abdominal or vaginal birth. So I would say it's only really in the last kind of month or two months that I have felt that I have become aware of long COVID as like a a constant presence in my life.
Speaker 2: 31:13
Yeah.
Katya: 31:14
Um, albeit because I guess much lower than it was.
Hannah: 31:18
The normal mums, the normal mums are now like recovering back to their like um pre-pregnancy levels of like strength and energy.
Katya: 31:29
Yeah.
Hannah: 31:29
Right. And you're yeah, and you're like, oh, oh yeah. I I always was, I always was at a lower starting place when it comes to energy. Um and yeah, that that that must be hard actually. Has that been challenging seeing other mums kind of managing more than what you can?
Katya: 31:53
Yeah, I mean it it makes it a little bit lonelier. Like I was very lucky in that. So prenatal yoga was my lifeline, or I loved it, and it was exactly my level. Like, you could do prenatal yoga, Hannah. It's literally just 45 minutes of stretching and yoga nidra, the dream. So I had this little group of friends who all did that with me. And then we did postnatal yoga from kind of 10 weeks post-birth, and now no one else does it anymore because they've recovered enough, they don't really need it. My friends are now doing like F45, like high intensity weights, bar, reformers Pilates. Um, so I like I'm aware now that they have over, like they are fitter than me. They don't have this illness, and they're doing exercises that like I could only dream of doing. Um, but I just I know I can't go there. Like, I did try I tried to join in on a Pilates class that my postnatal friends were doing, I think at like 16 weeks post or something. I did about half an hour, and then I just started feeling sick. You know, the long COVID sickness when you're it's like something has gone wrong, it's like a nausea. And then I had a crash. Yeah, and it was like it was my first crash with the baby, and it was just awful because she was there with me the whole time. Like my husband was at work. I was feeling exhausted and sick, and I just wasn't I just didn't speak to her for a couple of days. Like we were just in the flat at home silent because I was really tired and it was obviously a terrible feeling, and I felt enormous guilt. So like I'm not tempted anymore to try that kind of thing. Like, I'm okay with the other mums doing a different type of exercise to me now, or not being able to participate in everything anymore. But it is a bit lonely sometimes.
Speaker 2: 34:06
Yeah, yeah.
Hannah: 34:07
Cause I just feel like yeah, but the yeah, the risk of doing something like that means that you then lose several days of like interacting with your baby. It's like you can care for her basic needs, but I know that a lot of your energy goes into interacting with her, playing with her, like um giving her all that stimulation. It's not just like feeding.
Speaker 2: 34:36
Yeah, yeah.
Katya: 34:40
I know we've been speaking for 35 minutes, so I just had one more thing I think I wanted to say.
Speaker 2: 34:47
Okay.
Katya: 34:49
Um just is that long COVID really impacts my well, really impacts my parenting style. Um in that I choose the path of least resistance for everything which works for me.
Speaker 2: 35:03
Yeah.
Katya: 35:04
So for example, like I have never done and will not do any kind of sleep training. So like so Ariety sleeps on me, which is not what any of the baby books, all the baby books are like, you must put your baby down to sleep in their cot on their back for every nap. And I just was like, I think I tried it once or twice, and I just could I don't didn't have the energy for the screaming. So it's like she sleeps on me um in the day, she sleeps next to me in my bed at night, okay, on her front, which is also not what you're supposed to do, wearing like a little ankle monitor that like checks her heartbeat and her oxygen. So it's like that is not what you're supposed to do. And it was difficult to be like, I know all of like the it's to prevent Sid's sudden infant death syndrome. I know all of the advice is baby on the back, baby by themselves, da da da. But I just don't have the energy for like all of the extra pacifying that is required if you try and get them to sleep by themselves on their back. Blessing. So, like there's that. Yeah. We spend a lot of time, like in the afternoon after two o'clock, I'm tired. So we spend a lot of time listening to podcasts and music, and like there comes a point every day where I I'm just meeting her needs.
Hannah: 36:31
Yeah.
Katya: 36:31
Like I'm just cuddling, I'm just holding her, but like probably not singing anymore or reading a book. Like I'm getting through it.
Hannah: 36:38
Yeah.
Katya: 36:38
And then like I've just discovered baby cinema, which is you go to the cinema and you just have your baby on you. What? Like that's a I didn't know that was a thing. Oh no, it's the best thing. Um just kind of, yeah, I'm just folding with it. Like, I think that was all the things I wanted to say, but like, yeah. There are like loads of things that like it would be wonderful to do with her. Like there's all these baby gymnastics classes and stuff, but I just that's not me. And I am I still think I will be a very good mum. Yeah. Yeah. By just being present.
Hannah: 37:18
Yeah, totally. You're still doing an amazing job. And you've just ri like reduced the expectations of yourself activity-wise, and made adjustments. Um, I just think so much of this stuff anyway that they you kind of hear about that's available for babies, it's like, well, surely that's just like bonus stuff, right? Yeah. I'm sure, like, you know, your baby will be fine if they never went to a gymnastics baby class. Like I certainly I certainly never did.
Katya: 37:49
It's so true. Honestly, like you could literally spend a fortune. There's baby swimming, there's baby music, and I'm just bonus, it's a massive industry, isn't it? Totally. I'm like, this child doesn't even recognise herself in the mirror. Like, I'm pretty sure she's not gonna be, you know. Anyway, um, but I also just must say, like, all mums experience this. And in like, while I have like limited energy reserves, like in other ways, I have a surplus of energy, like we have the money, like I'll be able to send her to nursery soon, and then she will get physical play from other kids and other adults, and like I can afford to take her to like baby cinema, you know? It's kind of so yeah, I am at pe I am currently at peace with it. Yeah, yeah, and also I should just say extraordinarily happy, like, oh my god, the cuddles, you know, the cuddles are like healing. I feel like the cuddles are healing for both of us.
Hannah: 38:57
Yeah, she's for the record, she is such a cute baby.
Katya: 39:03
She's so round. She's so I know wonderfully plump. Yeah. Wonderfully plump. I do get terrified every time she gets sick. I think I do think there is like a that must be that must be very natural.
Hannah: 39:17
I'm sure all mums must feel that like kind of mild terror.
Katya: 39:23
But I get terrified that she'll get long COVID.
Hannah: 39:26
Oh, really?
Katya: 39:27
Yeah, I kind of ignore it because I do think that I think I'm much better now, but I do think I have had like a not I don't want to say the word PTSD because I know that's like a a serious medical condition, but I do think that I have some very negative patterns of thought around illness because of long COVID, because I once got sick and it lasted for well, it has lasted for years.
Hannah: 39:53
Yeah, yeah. Are you kind of worried that, oh, what if she gets COVID and then it's like genet, you know, she's got a genetic predisposition because of me.
Katya: 40:03
Yeah. But I also recognize that I have no reason to believe like that is literally just my brain.
Hannah: 40:09
Yeah.
Katya: 40:10
It's just it's just like a nightmare it's like a nightmare. I don't really want to indulge it.
Hannah: 40:15
Yeah, yeah. And like you could say that about all sorts of illnesses, right?
Speaker 2: 40:23
Yeah.
Hannah: 40:24
Um, it's just yeah, not a helpful thought pattern, but I totally sympathize. Um I'd be having all those thoughts too, I'm sure.
Katya: 40:36
Well, yeah, it sounds like it, Hannah. It sounds like you'd be thinking like thinking like 10 years ahead. I know. Will there be any jobs for her with the AI revolution? Like, will England still be habitable after the floods?
Hannah: 40:51
Oh my gosh. Yeah, that is me. That is me. All of those long-term things and those short-term things. Yeah, exactly. Oh dear. Um, but it's great to see you kind of so happy and kind of just doing, figuring out parenting your own way. Um and yeah, not falling to those external pressures. Sorry. Um which, you know, mean nothing. I mean, and all of those, I was just thinking, like, you know, we're from speaking from such a place of privilege that we're like, we can even you can even afford to take your baby to these classes. Like, there are so many people that aren't able to do that.
Katya: 41:35
Yeah. Exactly. Like, who's gonna be the perfect mum? Like, it must be a tiny, tiny percentage, like half of the 1% who can like wake their baby up, do baby sing song, go for a walk, go to baby yoga, come home, do weaning, play the guitar for their baby, do their baby physio, put their baby down for a nap, cook dinner for their partner, clean the house. Like it's just, I mean, comparison, it's just the thief of you know, the thief of died. That's not my quote. I don't think I needed to say that that wasn't my quote. I didn't come up with that. Well, that's so profound. How deep. But it's just so true. Um, and I I wanted to do this message just to give hope because while I think it's easy to think about all the people with long COVID who are like on their knees, like paralyzed by it, I imagine that many, many more people are just living their life with slightly less energy.
Hannah: 42:32
Yeah, who in that milder end of the spectrum view are maybe thinking like, you know, I would love to be a parent, but I'm worried I won't be able to do it perfectly, or how I feel like oh no, society is telling me I should do it. And it's like there is there is a way.
Hannah: 42:50
Yeah.
Katya: 42:51
And Katia is doing it. Yeah, I'm I'm doing I'm parenting sitting down.
Hannah: 42:55
Yeah.
Katya: 42:56
We do a lot of stuff sitting down, but like she can only lie down. So at the moment, no problems.
Hannah: 43:03
Yeah.
Hannah: 43:03
Also, I can figure once she starts crawling around, then you're in trouble.
Katya: 43:09
But then they also become able to self-entertain.
Hannah: 43:13
That's true.
Katya: 43:13
Do you know what I mean? Like when she can walk, I can just put her in the park and be like, there you go, make fun of this. Someone will play with you, I'm sure.
Hannah: 43:21
Like right now, she's in that phase, isn't she, where she doesn't want to be left at all. Like she wants to be clinging to you all the time. Yeah. And I'm just like when she gets to that crawling stage, you'll need to supervise her. But if you kind of put those parameters in to make sure that she's uh oh no, it's a cage, Hannah. Yeah, as long as she's like penned in, yeah. Yeah, under lock and key. Exactly by a little cage. Yeah. And Hannah's always long coding herself. She'll be okay. Exactly. Yeah, you can write the new book, can't you?
Katya: 43:53
Exactly. A cage and a spoon for entertainment for resolved. Um, yeah, that's it from me, Hannah.
Hannah: 44:03
Oh, well, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I'm sure listeners will find that very interesting. Whether you are a parent, a prospective parent or not.
Katya: 44:12
Um hate children like Hannah. If you're a child snatcher. That was actually pretty terrifying. Do you remember The Child Snatcher and chitty chitty bang bang?
Hannah: 44:23
Yeah, it was one of the reasons I couldn't really get through that film as a child. I was so sensitive as a child. I was terrible with any scary films. Such a worse.
Katya: 44:32
Yeah, but the child snatcher is like terrifying. The child snatcher is terrifying now. I remember my parents let me watch The Mummy when I was like seven and I didn't sleep for weeks. Um, okay. We will be back. We will be back at some point, right? But it's like a goodbye, it's like a goodbye goodnight kind of thing. It will be a while.
Hannah: 44:57
Yes. Yeah. Goodbye, good night for now. Um yeah. When we have when we've lived our lives a little bit further, I'd have more to say. Yeah, subject of long COVID. We'll be back.
Katya: 45:10
Yeah. Thank you, Hannah. And thanks everybody um for listening. And lots of love. Yeah, thank you. Lots of love, everyone. Bye. Thank you, Hannah. Thanks, Cassio. Bye.
